Sheeta,

Sounds like you are doing all of the right things.  I don't know what is going on inside of your nose, but here is what I do.  After 13 years, I know the inside of my sinuses pretty well and can even tell which sinus the saline is going in.  OK, TMI.

I lean way over the sink and not only run the saline in one nostril and out the other, but I kind of "scrub" the inside of my sinuses by gently inhaling and exhaling through my nose causing the solution to wash back and forth.

Are you using a pulsed irrigation system?  If you aren't you should.  Studies have shown that pulsed irrigation helps cilia action.  Additionally, there is a more forceful stream so the solution gets up there much better.

When you use pulsed irrigation (or any system for that matter), you have to be very gently and not forceful until you gradually work up to what works best for your system.

Some people may do well with a netti pot, but I personally need something that will get up into the back crevasies of my sinuses.  I use a bulb (or just snort out of a cup) when I'm travelling and it just doesn't clean things out like my pulsed system does.

I just started using Alkalol suggested by Pseudonym.  It is a nasal wash, moisturizer and mucus solvent and contains menthol, eucalyptol, thymol, camphor, benzoin, oils of wintergreen, spearment, pine, cinnamon and other stuff.  The bottle says to use it full strength and there is absolutely no way I personally would do that, but a dash in my irrigation solution is certainly refreshing!  It is also anti-microbiocidal.


Keep me posted!


_________________
Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.
Marilyn Vos Savant

That which does not kill you makes you stronger-Friedrich Nietzsche
Friedrich must of had apnea.

Hi Vicki,

I just, within the last twelve hours, got fed up with using allergy meds and asprin for my constant headaches and post-nasal drip and decided to go out and grab one of those sinus-cleanse kits with the saline solution in it.  I then came online to search around and see if there really was a big risk using tap water instead of filtered water(which you answered; thank you!) and found this forum.  

I do have another question which involves my afterwards reaction to the sinus cleanse.

It's been about 45 minutes since I used the cleanse(which I did twice) and am now feeling light headed and my sinuses feel stuffy.  I still have open nasal passages, seeing as though I can breathe through them.  This is my first time doing any type of cleansing in my nasal passages in a while(I do occasionally use saline spray). and am wondering if this is a normal first time reaction?  Or should I be worried?

Thanks so much!

Sincerely,

Rachel

Vicki wrote:

Sheeta,

Sounds like you are doing all of the right things.  I don't know what is going on inside of your nose, but here is what I do.  After 13 years, I know the inside of my sinuses pretty well and can even tell which sinus the saline is going in.  OK, TMI.

I lean way over the sink and not only run the saline in one nostril and out the other, but I kind of "scrub" the inside of my sinuses by gently inhaling and exhaling through my nose causing the solution to wash back and forth.

Are you using a pulsed irrigation system?  If you aren't you should.  Studies have shown that pulsed irrigation helps cilia action.  Additionally, there is a more forceful stream so the solution gets up there much better.

When you use pulsed irrigation (or any system for that matter), you have to be very gently and not forceful until you gradually work up to what works best for your system.

Some people may do well with a netti pot, but I personally need something that will get up into the back crevasies of my sinuses.  I use a bulb (or just snort out of a cup) when I'm travelling and it just doesn't clean things out like my pulsed system does.

I just started using Alkalol suggested by Pseudonym.  It is a nasal wash, moisturizer and mucus solvent and contains menthol, eucalyptol, thymol, camphor, benzoin, oils of wintergreen, spearment, pine, cinnamon and other stuff.  The bottle says to use it full strength and there is absolutely no way I personally would do that, but a dash in my irrigation solution is certainly refreshing!  It is also anti-microbiocidal.


Keep me posted!

Hey Vicki....where did you find your pulsed irrigation system.  Not to sound daft but is it the same thing as a waterpick? Thats probably a stupid question but humor me please lol....I have been looking into this whole irrigation system because I have chronis sinus problems and am hooked on nose spray.  So if your suggesting that perhaps the pulsated systems work best perhaps I should start right with the best system.  I just picked up a Nasal Flush product at one of my local drugstores. ITs a bottle kind of system w/a saline type of solution. I also just wrote down that product you suggested.  Now as far as solution I read on that flush package I bought you should use distilled, treated or bottled water (not spring water)...what is that?

Ti3,

At the beginning of this thread I cover the pulsed irrigation systems that I am aware of, there may be more around now.  Yes, they are all basically a Water Pik and in fact that is what I use with a special attachment for my nose.  If you Google Grossman Hydro Med you can find the original system or just order the attachment if you have a Water Pik.

Tap water has always worked just fine for me although I must say that my surgeon told me to use boiled water just because it is more sterile.  But I figure tap water is pretty sterile since it is chlorinated.  I am a bad patient and tend to do things as simply as possible (don't ask how often I clean my equipment).

Vicki


_________________
Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.
Marilyn Vos Savant

That which does not kill you makes you stronger-Friedrich Nietzsche
Friedrich must of had apnea.

Thanks a lot vicky. As suggested I am posting this here too.

Based on your suggestions, vicky, I went to ENT surgeon, who turn out to be anti surgery as far as possible and suggested me that since I have infection for more than a week, I should first take care of infection by taking anti biotics. After a week, he told me that he will put me on anti allergic drugs in consultation with Allergy related doctor.

Also he suggested me to do "PRANAYAM" its a part of YOG (You may call it YOGA, but correct pronunciation it YOG) He suggested that After Neti or nasal irrigation, if my nostrils are open, I should do following PRANAYAM for durations he mentioned. (Incidently I started doing it just before 12 days but at that time I already had infected sinus / polyp and blocked nose)

First Do BHRASTIKA PRANAYAM, you can learn more here (Duration 2-5 minutes)





Second KAPALBHATI (This is breath exhalation exercise and as per doctor once my nostrils start opening, gradually after some time with neti, medication and natural healing after infections as gone, this can gradually cure sinuosities and polyp  in next 6-12 months) Duration 5 minutes onward

Part 1





Part 2



I am doing above since last 3 days. I will post my experiences later.

I am sorry but today I re registered as my original Account under name of kalpak shah never got activated. Hence after about 3 days of tries I created this new account. I request administrators to remove my old account. Thanks

Hi
I've been suffering from chronic bouts of sinusitis for about 2 years now. Generally I have PND and constant headaches. It's the headaches that drive me mad. I've been diagnoised with allergic rhinitis, I am allergic to grass pollen. I am currently taking a six week course of antibiotics. I do not want to go the surgery route, so I have decided to try nasal irrigation, I have a neti pot, although I find it works to rid me of PND and eases things, it does give me a terrible headache, like when you go in the pool and get water up your nose. At the moment the antibiotics mean I'm headache free, so I'm reluctant to use the neti pot and end up with a worse headache because of that! I have bought a Grossan Sinus irrigation system, I'm waiting for it to arrive from America. Can anyone tell me why I might be getting this reaction to the nasal irrigation? I seem to be the only person on this forum getting this reaction and it's really off putting, I want this to work but I don't want the constant headach from it.

Vicki,

Are you still using the waterpik adaptor? I assume you need to use at its lowest setting....

I found an adaptor that works with a waterpik. It is called the Rhinotip. Have you ever heard of anyone using that one?

Thanks,
Peke


_________________
Res-Med VPAP - Adapt SV
FP Flexifit 406 mask
with Narcolepsy on the side!!!!

Amazing! How sad it is that my doctors never told me about this. But then again, they wouldn't have gotten all the payments for those appointments that I made for my sinus infections. I just went and bought one of these at Walgreen's - and even the phramacist scoffed when I asked where they were. He said he couldn't understand why someone would pour something in their nose like that. However, he reluctantly agreed when I told him it was cheaper than multiple doctor's visits each year and paying for high-priced antibiotics.

I am so glad I found this site! I have learned numerous things here that the doctors won't tell you due to their own loss of revenues. Our health system needs revamped!

 

Hi thanks for the reply I'm using a neti pot at the moment, my Grossan Sinus irrigation system hasn't arrived yet. Last night I managed to use the neti pot without getting a massive headache from it. I think the  key is the angle, I might have not had my head down far enough and it was running into my sinus's and god knows where, might have even got into my ears, it felt totally horrible. Now I hang my head over the bath, as far as I can, then turn my head sideways, this seems to work, doesn't feel like its running into my brain so much! Irrigation is the way to go but be careful how you do it, when it goes wrong it's worse than the sinus headache!

I do agree about why doctors don't tell you all this, my ENT (I'm from England) just gave me nose drops/sprays, then antibiotics but told me nothing about self care. Although they had a nasal irrigator advertised in the pharmacy, they didn't tell you about it, and why don't they actually show you how to use it properly???? I'm sure it would save the NHS thousands in needless operations if they were a bit more open minded. I did some research of my own and I've started a new regime where I irrigate twice a day, steam for half an hour, and do yogic breathing exercises to strengthen my immune system. I think you've basically got to pamper those sinuses until they start to work a bit better. Like I said, I do not want to have to have surgery, when allot of the time you can mange it by some effort and care. By the way the best type of yoga for this is Satyanda yoga, they do allot of work with breathing and nostral breathing, as posted on this forum previously, they also teach you how to use the neti pot.

Using neti pot means one has to be sure about angle and breathing while NETI. Breathing with mouth and practice for day or two makes thing better and easier.

After about more than a month now I am feeling almost normal. I do PRANAYAM every day and NETI twice a day. Have not used Otrivin since last 3 weeks. I think due to PRANAYAM I am feeling very energetic and amount of congestion is decreasing day by day.

Some days I seem to get it right, others it gives me a banging headache that makes me feel worse, but I do always breath through my mouth. There are lots of things we can do to stregthen our respiratory system, like the breathing exercises, or singing or laughing, I even looked into laughter workshops!

Vicki wrote:

Sheeta,

Sounds like you are doing all of the right things.  I don't know what is going on inside of your nose, but here is what I do.  After 13 years, I know the inside of my sinuses pretty well and can even tell which sinus the saline is going in.  OK, TMI.

I lean way over the sink and not only run the saline in one nostril and out the other, but I kind of "scrub" the inside of my sinuses by gently inhaling and exhaling through my nose causing the solution to wash back and forth.

Are you using a pulsed irrigation system?  If you aren't you should.  Studies have shown that pulsed irrigation helps cilia action.  Additionally, there is a more forceful stream so the solution gets up there much better.

When you use pulsed irrigation (or any system for that matter), you have to be very gently and not forceful until you gradually work up to what works best for your system.

Some people may do well with a netti pot, but I personally need something that will get up into the back crevasies of my sinuses.  I use a bulb (or just snort out of a cup) when I'm travelling and it just doesn't clean things out like my pulsed system does.

I just started using Alkalol suggested by Pseudonym.  It is a nasal wash, moisturizer and mucus solvent and contains menthol, eucalyptol, thymol, camphor, benzoin, oils of wintergreen, spearment, pine, cinnamon and other stuff.  The bottle says to use it full strength and there is absolutely no way I personally would do that, but a dash in my irrigation solution is certainly refreshing!  It is also anti-microbiocidal.


Keep me posted!

Vicki,
very glad to see your reply! I do use a pulsed irrigation system (Grossan Hydro Pulse Nasal Irrigation System).

I am testing the new technique. so far so good. I never thought I could inhale and exhale through my nose during irrigation, but it feels good and gets the water deeper.  

Please tell me all your experience, details.  How do you prevent the water from going in the lung? How to get the water in sinus etc. I will follow your advice and keep trying. Thanks a lot!!!

I use oxygen 24 hours/day and CPAP at night. My eye doctor has advised me to use lubricating eye drops several times a day due to the dry eyes he has seen on examination.

Intro: I have been through a couple of three sleep studies over the last few months and discovered that I have a genuine case of Complex Sleep Apnea. I tried a CPAP, but that seemed to bring on the Central apnea. I tried a Bi-PAP, but at some point the roaring winds blasting out of my ears seemed to interrupt my sleep. <smile> Didn't do too well on that one either. I did real well on a servo-ventilator (SV) and so they sent one to me. First they sent a ResMed VPAP SV. Real nice machine, compact, and once I figured out to let it breath for me, we got along OK, but that was the wrong machine. Now they have delivered a Respironics BiPAP SV, which is supposed to be a little fancier. It is certainly less dominating,  a little gentler, but I also "trust it a little less".  Hmmm...

Introductions out of the way, I have two mechanical problems that are both interferring with my sleep, even with the SV. One is that I seem to always have a lump in the back of my throat, way past the uvula, so that it feels like I might choke on something if I breath in.  ALL of the units seem to exacerbate this, so if I breath through my mouth with the air on, it feels like I'm going to choke or drown. Not a good feeling. I often have to tear the mask off so I can "safely" clear my throat, but it never seems to clear. If I'm on my side, it's not as bad as on my back. Duh. Most of my life I have been a mouth breather, but I've been earning sinus breathing and have it down pretty good.

That leaves me to this string. I have found that IF I can breath through my nostrils, i. e. OPEN sinuses, then I can keep my mouth shut, ignore the lump, and breath in the mask just fine, getting hours of restful sleep. EXCEPT that my sinuses are almost ALWAYS partially clogged. I've been to a few ENTs, I have a slightly deviated septum and small sinus passages, but nothing to warrant surgery, so I get meds. I've tried Fluonase, Nasonex, and Astelin (nasty bitter stuff), and somtimes in combination. If I am desperate, I will also make a tea of rough ground pepper and drink it a little before bedtime which is always guaranteed to drain the sinuses, but is spicy and not always so good on my stomach right before bedtime (can you say reflux?).

I have been reading this forum and a number of articles on the saline irrigation, Neti pot, etc. and I'm ready to give it a whirl, BUT I'm also a mad scientist and Engineer, so I worry about something that I have read in a few places (I'm not always this verbose, but I'm jittery from trying to stay awake) that your nose can grow accustomed to and even dependant on saline. Even plain old water. Hypotonic. Hypertonic. THAT If you use saline sprays etc. that you will have to keep using them, not a true addiction but similar in effect because if you stop there is a withdrawal period while your nose tries to adjust to not getting the nice wet saline environment that it has become accustomed to.

Can anyone tell me about this backlash effect, real, myth, or imagined?

Also if I lie down for bed at 10:00PM, what is the latest that I should do the irrigation? if I don't want to drown in it that is?

Thanx. If anyone can point me at the difference between the VPAP SV and the BiPAP SV, I would appreciate it.

Perhaps also some pointers on how not to freak out just as I drift off every few seconds with a large face-hugging apparatus tightly strapped to my face.  I understand why water-boarding is such a great, I mean effective, torture method; the feelling that you are drowning or otherwise going to die is quite disturbing, especially repeatedly over long periods.

Thanx for the help. It's nice to be in the company of those who have blazed a trail.

JT

Hi Talyn,

Love your profile and your way of writing.  Maybe someone else can help you better, but as far as the differences in machines, I would call ResMed and Respironics and speak with them.  They both have great technical support people.  Respironics (I called them today) has a new message which says to talk to your CPAP supplier, but if you are persistent enough, you can get through to tech. services and at least leave a message.

In regards to the meds., there are still several topical nasal steroids for you to try such as Rhinocort, etc.  Additionally, besides using Nasonex, I also use prescription Zyrtec and there are also several choices in this antihistamine class as well such as Claritin, Allegra, etc.  A nasal steroid may not be enough, I need both the topical nasal steroid and prescription antihistamine and it took awhile to find the right combination.  You probably should see an allergist.  Had I seen an allergist before an ENT, I probably would not have had my sinuses roto-routed.

If what you have read in regards to the "dependency" issue is not from a peer reviewed research article, then I would regard it with a drop of isotonic saline.  If it was, then I would like to see it for my own education.  There are volumes out there on the benefits of sinus irrigation.  I have never seen a dependency issue addressed.  Additionally, studies have shown that pulsed irrigation improves cilia function and therefore the function of the nose.

As far as a moist environment goes.  The mucosa is already wet.  All irrigation does is wash the gunk away.  It doesn't make the surfaces much wetter than they already are.  Also, it doesn't take longer than a minute or two to irrigate, just long enough to get squeaky clean in there and wash the guck and allergens away.  If I do it at night, I do it right before I lay down.  Tilt your head way forward, backward and from side to side and most everything will run out.  When you lay down, there may be a little more that runs down the back of your throat, but it isn't going to drown you.

All I know is that if I do not irrigate, I get sinus infections, but with irrigation, I have only had 1 or 2 infections in 6 years.  I have had plenty of infections try to start, but then I irrigate a lot throughout the day and they go away before they can take hold.

The trick to a mask is to learn to ignore it.  I know easier said than done, but really, your breathing should be the same all the time, slow, deep, relaxed and natural.  I don't use a BiPAP, so I don't know how much you have to synchronize your breathing.  I think that it is suppose to be that you lead the machine right?  Try putting on the mask, turning on your PAP and doing something that interests and distracts you like reading or watching TV.  Like I said, the idea is to ignore it.

Keep posting with your progress!!

Vicki


_________________
Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.
Marilyn Vos Savant

That which does not kill you makes you stronger-Friedrich Nietzsche
Friedrich must of had apnea.