CPAP Data Download

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CPAP Data Download

Postby idxman01 » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:37 am

^^ For lack of a better subject.

I've searched around and see various threads related to software where the majority are focused towards Respironics/ResMed limiting what we can do. (perhaps with the exception of the recent encoreviewer?) As I've been recently diagnosed with apnea and going back for a titration study this week, I'm very concerned with getting a fully data capable machine and being able to track my progress without manually recording the values each morning and without constantly going back to my clinic or DME.

While $150-200 for the software isn't that bad, it's the point of the entire matter. We've already spent good money on these machines and they should come with software to allow us to merely view the results. Bilking the consumer for the privilege of managing their health data is a shame. How exactly can we be an advocate for our health without the proper tools to do so? Diabetics have machines to help them. (I know - different situation)

After my dad's last CT scan they gave us a CD with all the native images (dicom 3, acr-nema 2,etc.) and a software program called MxLiteView to view them.. It was very impressive and was exactly what we needed that day to at least put on minds at ease. (seeing if we saw any obvious signs of cancer in the brain) Even though he could identify the scans and know what to look for to an extent (has worked in the field for years), we naturally waited to hear the official reading the next day.


As a systems analyst/programmer I also hate to be told that something with software "isn't available" or isn't possible. To be honest I haven't worked with smart cards so I'm not really familiar with the specifics of what can be accessed, etc.. Has anyone with a card reader been able to copy the data off? And if so can you fashion a guess as to the storage format of the data? (is it encrypted/etc..)

I'm sure it's against all kinds of things, but if we could at least get to the simple summary data for each PAP session (ahi, leak, etc..) I could probably write something to help us trend it.

?
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Postby pseudonym » Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:39 am

I'm a developer too. But I haven't spent a good deal of time looking into getting the data directly off the respironics smartcard, because I have the Encore Pro software (don't ask). (I have no knowledge of ResMed smartcards or software other than the card is completely different from Respironics and maybe uses a cable to PC rather than a card reader, not sure.)

There is a freebie utility called MyCPAP Card Utility (I downloaded it from MyCPAP dot org) which dumps an image of the smartcard (for backup and restore purposes) as well as raw formats the card (different from Encore Pro which formats the card ready for use in a Respironics machine). Dunno if this would be helpful to you, as it is a binary image dump? A place to start, perhaps with the developer rather than the program?

Encore Pro uses the m$ desktop SQL database engine (MSDE), there is another freebie written by James Skinner called Encore Pro Analyzer http://james.istop.com/EncoreProAnalyzer/ that can read the Encore Pro database and make some very nice graphs, some of which aren't available in Encore Pro or not for a huge date range (that's one thing I don't like about Encore Pro -- several detail reports are only available on a per-card-dump basis and not across a date range in the database. I've thought about writing my own SQL to get it but haven't really looked into it...)

I don't have the EncoreViewer, but I believe it doesn't use MSDE... dunno for certain.

Sorry I couldn't give you a lot to go on, but maybe the smartcard utility lead will yield some information for you.

Blessings,
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Postby idxman01 » Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:51 am

I really appreciate the info pseudonym! Will definitely have to check into the card dump. I have a built-in card reader on my laptop, but haven't had a need to use it yet.

Here's an interesting quote from the mycpap dot org site:

This site has been created to provide a safe place to upload and store your C/A/Bi PAP data or any other data and if you have a Respironics card you will soon be able to perform charting and stats.


Sounds like they have at least figured out the format of the respironics data. Might not be that difficult. I had half-thought about doing something similar if I could get the data out in a reasonable format. (something where php didn't have to work too hard to create summaries)

It would be nice to trend this kind of thing over years - not just a few weeks or months.
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Postby pseudonym » Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:16 am

I haven't been to that site since I downloaded the utility... interesting they are proceeding with reading the data.

I dunno if your laptop cardreader can read a Respironics smartcard? They are a proprietary beast from what I gather... I have a bunch of card readers for all sorts of media but had to buy a DT3500-type USB reader specifically for the smartcard. Be nice to know if proprietary is not true and some type of generic reader can read it. I wasn't going to pay what they want for a DT3500 reader here, I ordered from www dot two-factor dot com, it's called a "desktop usb smart card reader" made by mako, $35 shipped from Hong Kong. Did have wait two weeks for it. Cheapest reader I found here in US was $68 before shipping. Be sure you get a DT3500 type if you buy a reader.

Here's what the Respironics cards look like, in case you're not familiar: http://encorepro.respironics.com/ They're big, the size of a credit card...

Can't seem to hit a picture of a ResScan SmartMedia card at the moment... but I think those are made by Toshiba and may work in universal card readers, not sure..

Keep us posted on what you find out!

Blessings,
--pseudonym

P.S. Interestingly enough, Puritan Bennett sells their Silverlining analysis software to patients, always have as far as I know. Progressive :-)
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Postby idxman01 » Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:31 am

No idea here either. Most likely I'll get a respironics REMStar Pro so I'll definitely try it out.

I currently have a Gemplus [pcmcia] reader/writer so we'll see. It appears to fit the credit-card style leaving about 3/4in of the card hanging out.. The card on the encorepro page seems to be thin, but as you said, could be proprietary and not of use to us.

That is interesting about Puritan Bennett though. Maybe all us new pap users should boycott and go with PB, ResMed and other companies with software. :)
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another one

Postby idxman01 » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:16 pm

http://sourceforge.net/projects/sleepcard/
(assuming the link is ok since it's free/GPL software)

Looks like the same direction I was going in. Too bad they opened the project in 2005 and it's still in pre-alpha with nothing released. (probably a ghost project by now) I'm going to check and see if they have any info on the card/data format.

:-D
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Postby idxman01 » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:30 pm

Hm. Not to keep spamming this thread, but this was an interesting article snip from over at cpaptalk dot com:


This card format is not proprietary to Respironics.

The SmartCard is normally installed in a slot on the REMStar xPAP device and is removed for downloading. Respironics states that the card can store 6 - 9 months of compliance data and 7-9 days of detailed sleep data. I have seen reports that users have seen 10 -12 days of detailed data. When the card is filled, the oldest data is lost as new data is stored.


It would be nice if the card held more than 7-12 days of detail incase you don't have a chance to download it.. Then again I'm barely ever without my laptop - even on vacations.
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Postby pseudonym » Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:29 pm

I'm pretty sure the card format IS proprietary to Respironics. But, doesn't really matter... have to have something that can read the card and interpret the data, proprietary or not! :-)

Yes too bad that sourceforge project fizzled out!

RE: P.B. -- Respironics does offer the EncoreViewer software now, it is easier to get than ResMed's, but I understand ResMed is working on something for patients as well.

RE: Detail sessions. I got a few spare cards from my DME, that way I can keep recording even if I can't download, and also because those cards have been known to go bad on occasion. I read something about Respironics trying a cheaper chip... Anyway, if you pick up a few spare cards you can safely let each card store 7 detail sessions and then insert the next card, unload when you have a chance.

Hope that helps, Blessings,
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Postby idxman01 » Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:40 pm

pseudonym wrote:I'm pretty sure the card format IS proprietary to Respironics. But, doesn't really matter... have to have something that can read the card and interpret the data, proprietary or not! :-)

Yes too bad that sourceforge project fizzled out!


Yep, that's the big IF. Could be that we can get to the card dump, but it's in a gnarly format and has to be heavily chewed before it's usuable.

That is too bad, but I'm not giving up hope just yet. (might once I see the card :-o ) No response from the SF guy either. Maybe I'll see if I can get some details from the mycpap site on how they expect to read the data..
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Postby late_hops » Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:43 pm

idxman01,

Awesome thread! Being a sysadmin, I was thinking along the same lines too. I have just been diagnosed and am in the process of fighting for a data capable machine at the moment. When I finally get mine, I'll post what I find out.

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Postby pseudonym » Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:48 pm

idxman01 wrote:That is too bad, but I'm not giving up hope just yet. (might once I see the card :-o ) No response from the SF guy either. Maybe I'll see if I can get some details from the mycpap site on how they expect to read the data..

If you login and go the forum on mycpap the "welcome" thread has a post on how to get the data off the card, but nothing after that... It's probable he fizzled permanently at charting data from the card dump, as the "coming soon" post for seeing charts is three years old :-)

I'm still thinking EncoreViewer is going to be the only way to go, at least in the short term...

Blessings,
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Postby idxman01 » Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:01 pm

Ah, dead project. You're probably right with the viewer. Although I'm too stubborn to not try and tinker with it.

Hey late_hops: a bit OT, but what kind of systems do you admin? (aix cluster, freebsd and windows here)
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Postby Bearded One » Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:12 pm

Has anyone with a card reader been able to copy the data off? And if so can you fashion a guess as to the storage format of the data? (is it encrypted/etc..)


It is encrypted; the card reader driver performs the decryption, that is why the standard driver that comes with the reader will not work with Respironics cards.


Currently HP-UX and RHEL4; previously Solaris on Sparc, AIX, various BSD's, AT&T System V, Motorola, SCO UNIX, HP-IPL/OS.
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Postby idxman01 » Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:59 pm

Bearded One wrote:It is encrypted; the card reader driver performs the decryption, that is why the standard driver that comes with the reader will not work with Respironics cards.


Currently HP-UX and RHEL4; previously Solaris on Sparc, AIX, various BSD's, AT&T System V, Motorola, SCO UNIX, HP-IPL/OS.


Well.. !@#! about sums it up. I was hoping a quick dump and perl scramble would do the trick..

You sound like an old timer with some of those systems. :-D
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Postby late_hops » Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:40 am

idxman01 wrote:
Hey late_hops: a bit OT, but what kind of systems do you admin? (aix cluster, freebsd and windows here)


I'm the Lawson admin and the backup unix admin (AIX and linux)
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