If you don't believe in any religion then this doesn't apply to you...but for those who do, does anyone think that having a sleeping disorder is intended to bring you closer to God (or whoever you worship)?  For me, I was always kind of religious...however, when my sleep apnea got really bad and I was fatigued all the time, I became very depressed and only achieved hope/inspriation to go on in my life through God. I think God throws us these "curve balls" to remind us that our lives aren't meant to be perfect and suffering is part of the game.  Also, if I were to never have had sleep apnea I truly believe I wouldn't have ever looked to God for so much support.  Since I got my CPAP, and I'm no longer fatigued throughout the day, I don't take my life for granted.  Im lucky to have such an effective treatment for this disorder, and I thank God everyday!!

If you have similar stories put them down and god bless you all!!

Well, everyone believes in something supernatural, can't really get around it no matter how you want to explain origins ... but I digress.

From a Christian perspective, I believe that the afflictions of the world are allowed to fall on us to be used in a positive way (if we let God do that). While we may not be able to see the big picture and understand why "bad things happen," whether those bad things be tragic events or chronic illnesses or whatever, there is a purpose and a plan.  Sometimes we're able to see a glimpse of the plan playing out, sometimes it just isn't for us to understand. I do agree that being allowed to suffer afflictions can keep us focused on what is important and what is not important in life. I was very close to my dad, and when he died in 2003 at age 53 from a heart attack (he had untreated OSA and was a smoker), I was living an unfocused life where I had way too many committments of my time and was neglecting my wife and children, and neglecting my relationship with God even while I was attending seminary at the time working on a master's in theology (kind of ironic really). So yeah, having bad things happen can definitely have a re-focusing effect.

I don't think it is coincidence that we as people tend to only get involved in raising money for cures, pushing for research, and just basically getting involved with a cause unless we have some sort of personal connection to it. There are exceptions of course, but the norm is that people tend to focus on causes that they have personally been affected by (either themselves or someone they know). If I didn't have sleep apnea, I wouldn't have ever visited these forums. I imagine that's true of almost everyone else (obviously some people visit on behalf of a family member or friend, which goes back to my last point). But I do have SA, and I'm here, and while there are more knowledegable forum members than me, I also like to think that I've been able to help others based on my own experiences and what I've learned from others. So God is working good through something I'd rather not have.


_________________
<--Will-->
http://www.inside-corner.com
http://www.willwillis.us

I have to agree with Will.  I am on this forum because my 18 month old son was diagnosed with OSA at 13 months.  He had a T&A done at 14 months old and now at 18 months, he has central sleep apnea.  We are anxiously awaiting an appt with a ped neuro on March 7th.  I don't personally have sleep apnea so I don't know how he feels, however, I have to think he's been through much worse.  His esophagus didn't attach to his stomach when he was born and he couldn't even swallow his own saliva until he had surgery at 3 days old to connect it.  Parts of it were even attached to his trachea.  I thank God everyday that my precious baby can eat and breathe because these are things we take for granted unless you have a personal struggle with them.  His birth has brought me closer to God than I ever thought I could be.  I wasn't always a very religious person although I believed in God.  At first I was mad thinking, Why me?  But my husband and I have come to realize that we were chosen to care for a special baby like Emerson.  I know that sounds corny to some, but I don't think every parent could handle the endless tears, the NICU experience, the time he coded and had to be revived, the 5 surgeries, the constant choking incidents, the high risk for pneumonia and RSV, the daily breathing treatments...you get the idea...oh yeah, and sleep apnea.  So whether it's sleep apnea or something else, in my opinion, there is a reason for it.  I haven't completely figured it all out yet, but I have to put my faith in someone or something that it's OK and happening for a reason that I will learn later in life.  In the meantime, I try to be the best mom I can.  

In case you're wondering, Emerson is doing extremely well these days.  He's much better than the doctors ever told us he would be by this point in his life.  

Sara

I had a little conversation with myself about whether I should reply to this and tell you what I think or not. I agreed with myself that I should not. Then I hit the post reply button.

I assume the question was about all religion, and not just Christianity, but what I have to say applies in any case.

#1,  If God gave me sleep apnea so I would help other people with sleep apnea, why did God give the other people sleep apnea?

#2, The whole, "We don't get to understand, but God wouldn't do anything without a reason" explanation for bad things happening never worked for me.

If you are a Christian, and the Bible is what you go by, you do get to understand, because it is explained. If you are look for the answer in the bible, and go strictly by what the bible says about illness, the answer is, not a single one of us have to be ill at all. Jesus said that any person could heal any person just as he did.  Jesus said repeatedly that it was our thoughts and our words, and our faith, or lack thereof, that create our realities. You can tell a mountain to move from here to there and it will move. You can walk on water if you have faith that you can.  "By your words ye shall be condemned, and by your words ye shall be freed."

Science has shown, on occasion, that often, people who are told that they are going to die in 6 months.. die in exactly 6 months, and then the doctors find out that they had misdiagnosed the patient, and nothing was wrong, But the patient believed it.

Buddhism states that by controling your mind, you control the universe. That you draw to you mirrors of your psyche and your heart.

Einstein said that imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited, immagination encompasses universes.

I could give you hundreds of quotes from religion and from science, and examples of this being played out, but it's one of those things. If you believe that we create our own realities, you believe it, and if you don't, you think I'm a kook for saying it.

Although I believe it, intellectually, I have had trouble putting it into practice in a lot of areas, so I can't tell you that belief healed me. I wish I could. Of course, even if I was able to say that, I'd sound like a snake handler to some of you.

Those are my toughts on religion and sleep apnea.

On #1, God doesn't "give" SA or other conditions. We live in a decaying world where genetics are getting worse, not better. Our bodies suffer from corruption in this world, that goes all the way down to the molecular level and goes all the way back to the Fall. I'll just leave it at that, as this is not the place to have a real theology discussion. Obviously that's a Christian/creationist perspective. An atheist/naturalist would need to explain how an ordered/structured universe arose out of nothing and random chance chaos in complete violation of natural law before they could explain what causes diseases/disorders.

On #2, while I agree with you that we demonstrate a significant lack of faith and therefore cannot achieve what we ought to be able to, at the same time biblical interpretation is a pretty in depth subject. Jesus often spoke in parables, and there's not necessarily an indication that the verses you're referencing are intended to be taken literally. "Moving mountains" is a common way of saying "achieving great things." As far as healing, I do think that we ought to be able to, but in our heart we simply don't believe it is genuinely possible. And that is why we fail. I do believe that real faith healers exist, they're just not doing it in stadiums and arenas like the frauds that give Christianity a black eye. The health and wealth gospel is a dangerous path to tread.

But I disagree completely that there is not a big picture plan that has already been worked out and that we're a part of. A biblical example, when David sent Uriah to die so that he could have Bathsheeba, did any of them know that the David-Bathsheeba union would produce Solomon and 1000 years later the same line would produce Jesus? That's the type of thing I'm getting at, we know how things will turn out in the end, but we don't know event to event, day to day, how things are being used to further that end. We can understand and take comfort in knowing that everything, good and bad, will be used by God for good (Romans 8:28) ... but that doesn't mean that we know the specific mechanics of that through individual events and circumstances in our lives.

There is plenty of evidence of the power of the mind, even directly related to the medical community is the common "placebo effect" of medications. I think I understand what you mean by creating our own realities, and to some degree that's true. I think that is also why common things like depression are misunderstood, because we have this mentality that "it's all in your head" and "you just need to have a better attitude," - you just need to think happy thoughts to get over it - when the problems are deeper than that. But while sometimes misdiagnosed people are told they're going to die and they do, you also hear all kinds of stories of people overcoming the so-called medical odds. People who are never supposed to walk again do, people who have terminal illnesses mysteriously are cured. So it definitely goes both ways.


_________________
<--Will-->
http://www.inside-corner.com
http://www.willwillis.us

This discussion should be moved to the Late Night thread.


_________________


Acronyms and Often Used Forum Phrases
Respironics? M-Series Auto w/ HH & C-Flex; Flexfit? Hybrid? Mask, Encore Pro 1.8i

Man, this is deep. For fear of getting berated by the "believers", I'll leave it at that. I don't think that this forum should evolve into a religious debate. There are many other forums for that, aren't there?

Peace to all, no matter where you find it.


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SnickersPie

The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington chemistry mid-term.

The answer by one student was so "profound" that the professor shared it with colleagues, via the Internet, which is,of course, why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well.

Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?

 Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law (gas cools when it expands and heats when it is compressed) or some variant.
 One student, however, wrote the following:

     First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rate at which they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave.
    Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of the religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added.
    This gives two possibilities:

    1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.
     2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.
     So which is it?
    
     If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa during my Freshman year that, "It will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you," and take into account the fact that I slept with her last night, then number two must be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and has already  frozen over. The corollary of this theory is that since Hell has frozen over, it follows that it is not accepting any more souls and is therefore, extinct......leaving only Heaven thereby proving the existence of a divine being which explains why, last night, Teresa kept shouting "Oh my God."

THIS STUDENT RECEIVED THE ONLY "A"


_________________


Acronyms and Often Used Forum Phrases
Respironics? M-Series Auto w/ HH & C-Flex; Flexfit? Hybrid? Mask, Encore Pro 1.8i

Hhopper your story is an old urban myth cute and humorous to be sure.  Also a good "cat" line at the end.  http://www.snopes.com/college/exam/hell.asp ....Snickers Pie this section of the forum is reserved for this type of discussion.  So far no one is flaming anyone and the exchange of ideas is always interesting and often cathartic for some.  No one is forced to read it or participate.  Viva freedom of speech!


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Hoax~Slayer Forums

SnickersPie wrote:

Man, this is deep. For fear of getting berated by the "believers", I'll leave it at that. I don't think that this forum should evolve into a religious debate. There are many other forums for that, aren't there?

Peace to all, no matter where you find it.

I don't see it as a problem given the the thread was appropriately moved to the "Late Night" forum, and as long as it stays civil. And the original post was on topic in a way, in that it wasn't a general religion post as much as it was a post on coping with a chronic condition like sleep apnea from a religious perspective (regardless of which belief system you hold to). Some people cope by popping pills, or seeking out alternative treatments or answers. Others cope through religious beliefs. That the latter might make some people uncomfortable is not an excuse to ban the discussion from taking place, assuming that it stays relevant to the purpose of the forum (which is why I didn't launch into a full blown theological discussion above).

As Jean said, if it isn't your cup of tea, don't read. We're not all required to participate in all threads. I personally find dogs and cats to be horrible pets (for me anyway), and therefore I stay out of the "animal lovers" thread, because I'm not one :)  (although I love fish)  ... Anyway, I'm not saying that in any sort of negative tone of voice (since you can't read body language in a text post), so please don't think I'm attacking you. I believe though that as long as people are respectful they can disagree all they want. And this topic does have value to some people.


_________________
<--Will-->
http://www.inside-corner.com
http://www.willwillis.us

I believe that satan is the "god of this world" and he is the one responsable for all evil and sickness falls in the catagory of evil.

We had a child die shortly after birth. People told us it was "Gods will". Phwey!!  If I believed God did this, I would hate him. Since I believe He and His Son are good and not evil, then I turn to Them when sickness, death or pressures of this world befall me or those I know to pray for.  The promise is that , "all sickness and death and tears will be done away with".  My faith teaches to look for the promise that is to come but to rely upon God and His Son, to get us through to that day. My sleep apnea is a sickness and did not originate with God. He has provided a way to get by until the promise is fulfilled.


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You can't have everything. Where would you put it?

An interesting question. I know I came uncomfortably close to dying; my health deteriorated to the point where a heart attack, stroke or something else was inevitable. Now that I'm regaining my health and finally getting the sleep I need, my whole perspective on life and my beliefs have changed drastically. If you or someone close to you has OSA and it causes you to become more spiritual, compassionate, appreciative of life, etc., then so much the better.


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ResMed VPAP III machine, bilevel at 22/16
ResMed Activa Mask

JeanInMontana,

While I respect your opinion, I disagree, and think that if you have such strong feelings against the comments that hhopper and I have posted, send us a PM.

Regardless of religious beliefs, I don't judge you or anyone else. Why do you judge us?

"Off Topic" means just that: Off the topic of SA. Motorcycle enthusiasts, computer geeks, animal lovers, etc., have many posts. I didn't expect religion and SA to be posted and debated under "Late Night with Sleep Apnea".

I am not hostile to you at all, and I wish you the best. Yes, "Viva freedom of speech!", and I have spoken.

I will no longer respond publicly to this string. There are many much more valuable areas within this forum for me.

Should you choose to send a rebuttal or comment, please send a PM to me directly.


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SnickersPie

SnickersPie wrote:

JeanInMontana,

While I respect your opinion, I disagree, and think that if you have such strong feelings against the comments that hhopper and I have posted, send us a PM.

Regardless of religious beliefs, I don't judge you or anyone else. Why do you judge us?

"Off Topic" means just that: Off the topic of SA. Motorcycle enthusiasts, computer geeks, animal lovers, etc., have many posts. I didn't expect religion and SA to be posted and debated under "Late Night with Sleep Apnea".

I am not hostile to you at all, and I wish you the best. Yes, "Viva freedom of speech!", and I have spoken.

I will no longer respond publicly to this string. There are many much more valuable areas within this forum for me.

Should you choose to send a rebuttal or comment, please send a PM to me directly.

I will not reply via PM, I have no desire to hide anything I have to say.  I merely pointed out to HH that his post is a well known Urban Legend, I think if that offended him he would say so.  I have no strong feelings about his post at all.  

As for yours, all I was saying is this is the area of the forum reserved for threads like this one, and if you find it objectionable maybe you shouldn't involve yourself in it.   I'm not the only one that said that.   Why didn't you make a comment to Will?

Your defining what this section of the forum should be according to your opinion only, or as you said "what you expected" and "There are many other forums for that, aren't there?" .  For what ever reasons you find combining religion and SA offensive.  That is your prerogative.  I don't have any strong feelings about that either.  

If you notice I have not made any comment about religion or SA in this thread.  My point is freedom of speech in a forum set aside for topics as this one.  No judgment.

Peace out.




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Hoax~Slayer Forums

JeanInMontana,

Hide? I have NOTHING to hide! I just don't want to bog down the other members with this "banter" you and I seem to be having.

Since you didn't respect my request for a PM, I give you one last public word:

I AM NOT trying to make this forum into anything else than it is, and there's no reason for you to be so accusatory. I enjoy this forum as it is. You have your opinion, I have mine. I read Will's comments, and didn't have a strong response worthy to post.

Since joining this forum late last year, I have found nothing but educated, informed, and supportive members. All have provided positive experiences, yet also expressed their personal opinions, which I have respected.

I also have many PMs supporting my statements ... but fine ...

You're right ... everything you say is gospel ... and everyone who confronts, questions, or disagrees with you is wrong. Whatever.

Enough is enough.

Peace out to you as well.


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SnickersPie