The stuff is also addictive.  Even as a sleeping pill, it should only be used for a short time.

Quote:

I also wonder if CPAP therapy is doing more harm than good in the long run to our lungs and do we  become depended on it.

I do not know if there is any sort of CPAP dependency that is developed with its use, but I doubt it because there are people who do discontinue CPAP. The dependency is that many people will live greatly diminished or shortened lives without it.

There are a number of studies that show that the health of patients with OSA improves after they start CPAP.

joey777 wrote:

I guess I'm a doubting thomas just because I know someone else will do a study and come up with a totally different concussion.

There is nothing wrong in being a doubting Thomas. I think that you are asking good questions, but are completely in the dark about the answers. There is about 25 years of research of the sleep apnea condition and CPAP treatment, so some info is firmly established. There is a link to a list of books about sleep apnea that can be found on the main page of the ASAA website (sleepapnea-dot-org). Suggest you take a look sometime.

There is on-going research in sleep apnea, and sleep medicine in general. There is no guarantee that there won’t be new developments that differ from the current understanding. In fact, there are several current controversial issues. But the more that is known, the better. And the more you know, the better you will be able to make your own informed decisions.

CrohnieToo wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

joey777 wrote:

I was taking Ambien at the time of the sleep study and did not get any sudden gasping of air at all. When I asked the doctor should I try some Ambien instead of Valium at home he said no it would make it worse?? I don't get that since it did not happen with Ambien on the study. I going to try it tonight anyway because last night on Valium I really almost died. At least it felt that way.

The reason for the docs decision on this is still not clear to me. What type of doc are you seeing? A pulmonologist who is certified to practice sleep medicine?

The doc told you horsepuckies. Ambien was developed specifically for sleep, as was Lunesta and Rozarem. Valium is a benzodiazapine and was developed for other disorders than sleep but has sedating properties. Those sedatiing properties CAN affect your sleep evaluation and titration results. Ambien, Lunesta and Rozarem are much less likely to affect your studies.

Valium is often used for IV "conscious sedation" for colonoscopies for its amnesiac properties every bit as much as for its sedating properties. They can keep you awake enough to respond to their requests to roll over, etc. but you will have no memory of any pain you experience.

CrohnieToo is telling it like it is, and Amen to that.

Ambien is often used to help patients fall asleep during sleep studies, and when first starting CPAP treatment.

But your post is the first one that I have ever heard of Valium being used. I have read that Valium can relax muscles, which theoretically could make obstructive apnea worse, and that it can worsen REM sleep (not something that someone with a sleep disorder needs in any case). And that it is contraindicated for sleep apnea - would you please check the data sheet that comes with every prescription to see if sleep apnea is listed?

Joey777, please make sure to question your doctor when things he/she says don't make sense.  They are not gods you know, they do make mistakes. Maybe the doctor stayed up all night with a crying baby, or was frustrated because he was running 2 hours behind schedule, and just was confused for a second and got his words mixed up.  I do not think any reputable doctor with a real degree would reccomend valium over ambian for a sleep apnea patient. Call him on it, if he sticks to his story, then its time to get a new doctor.  Virginia


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Resmed elite , 17, mirage quattro ff . 25 + years of untreated OSA

Thanks everybody for your help! Let me answer a few questions that you have raised. Yes, I see a doctor that is a pulmonologist who is certified to practice sleep medicine? It's a whole sleep disorder center with two doctors and techs on staff. I have had panic attacks in the passed but not for some time now but that's why I think he prescribed the Valium. I have had them come and go for many years and I think I know what one feels like and what one don't. What I am getting is not. I tried to explain this to the doctor and he told me he thinks it is a anxiety episode. I feel that the Valium would do more harm then good by making my throat relax and close up even more but he told me the Ambien would??? Don't make sense when I was told by the other doctor on staff that Ambien would have no negative effect on my sleep study so I should use it on my sleep study if needed, which I did. I don't think this was a mistake on his part. I also feel they intentionally kept you in the dark as some doctors try to do. I don't like to play that game. Here they seem to do.

Talking to my brother last night about this gasping thing , he also used to get them as he has Apnes and uses a machine now for 4 years, he told me to try to get an auto one. When they put him on one his conditions improved to the point he sleeps like a baby now. I did bring this up to the doctor but was told "you don't need an auto one all it does is change the pressure automatically". Well isn't that the point?? When I start to gasp the machine would sense that and give me the proper pressure to open my airways?? I'm I wrong about that????  Bottom line I really have no faith about what they tell me just because  I went in with this gasping problem and after the 2 sleep studies and nights of NO sleep with trying to use the CPAP I still have the same problem. I don't know my next move. Maybe some advice here on the "AUTO" type machines. Maybe another call to the doctor. I know I was sleeping better ,at least longer, before all this. Very frustrating.

Since you are already established at this sleep lab and the one doctor sounds like he knows the meds a bit better (the one who told you to go ahead and use the Ambien during your sleep study) I would insist on a appointment w/him ONLY.

I wouldn't "bad mouth" the other doctor but I WOULD express my frustration, the problems you are having. I wouldn't bring up the "anxiety" bit at all unless HE addresses it. If HE does then be quite firm that these are NOT the same. And, if I am reading right, you ONLY experience them at night.

Explain the situation w/your brother and his experience changing to an autoPAP and ASK this doctor if he thought that at least a "trial" on an autoPAP would help better pinpoint your problem or pressure.

If you don't feel you are getting anywhere w/him then just tell him you intend to seek out a second opinion w/a sleep doctor at another facility. To stroke his ego a bit, ask him if there is another doctor or sleep lab he would recommend. Then ask for a copy of your "medical records" w/this sleep lab, your full scored data summary reports w/condensed graphs, not just the dictated results.

Be diplomatic, but firm.

The offer may be made that he will FAX the data over to whatever sleep lab/doctor you have decided upon for a second opinion. Politely refuse. You prefer that they be given directly to you. You have this LEGAL RIGHT under HIPAA and if necessary you might need to "nicely" remind him of such. Perhaps by nonchalantly saying that HIPAA allows this as one of your patient rights. And while you are at it request a copy of your equipment order (script).

When providing the data from this first sleep lab to the second, provide only the full scored data summary report w/condensed graphs and as long as there is NO REFERENCE to anxiety in the doctor's dictated reports you can provide them too. If there is any reference to "anxiety" don't provide them.

Remember - DIPLOMATIC BUT FIRM. Good luck.


_________________
Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Resmed VPAP Auto. Humidaire 3i, Simplicity & Micro masks, ResScan 3.4, S8 ResLink, Embla oximeter.

CrohnieToo...I only experience these symptoms at the onset of sleep. After I get them 2 or 3 times the rest of the night I can sleep and they don't come back. Problem is I can't use the CPAP as it is REALLY make it bad to have a mask on when it happens. My brother suggested trying to use a nasal pillow. I'm looking in to that now but I will take your advice and set up something with the other doctor. Why don't they just try the autoPAP first?? Is there a reason they don't. See nothing really has ever been explained to me not even the Apnea to any extent. That's why I feel in the dark. Basically I was told to just use the machine or eventually your mortality rate will rise. Real Nice!

joey777 wrote:

Why don't they just try the autoPAP first?? Is there a reason they don't. See nothing really has ever been explained to me not even the Apnea to any extent. That's why I feel in the dark. Basically I was told to just use the machine or eventually your mortality rate will rise. Real Nice!

My sleep doc initially prescribed an autoPAP for me for several reasons:

Some people prefer them, some don't. Ideally, it allows someone to use lower pressures which can be more comfortable, and is able to automatically increase the pressure only when it senses the patient needs it. If it's possible that it will improve your compliance with treatment, then it is worth giving a try.

An autoPAP can be programmed to function as a CPAP. So it is like having two devices in one.

Most autoPAPs are data capable. This feature tracks AHI, leak rate, and usage. It is very helpful for monitoring the effectiveness of the treatment. Try to get one that has full data capability.

An autoPAP may be used to determine the optimal pressure setting range for the patient. This is called auto-titration.

joey777 wrote:

CrohnieToo...I only experience these symptoms at the onset of sleep. After I get them 2 or 3 times the rest of the night I can sleep and they don't come back. Problem is I can't use the CPAP as it is REALLY make it bad to have a mask on when it happens. My brother suggested trying to use a nasal pillow. I'm looking in to that now but I will take your advice and set up something with the other doctor. Why don't they just try the autoPAP first?? Is there a reason they don't. See nothing really has ever been explained to me not even the Apnea to any extent. That's why I feel in the dark. Basically I was told to just use the machine or eventually your mortality rate will rise. Real Nice!

Ha! Sounds like it might be the Ramp feature! The starting pressure might be set too low. If the pressure range between Ramp start and your set pressure it can take too long to build up to your set pressure. The starting Ramp pressure can be increased or the Ramp time can be shortened. Ramp builds up pressure in .5 increments so it can take quite a while to ramp up from say 4 cms (most people can't breathe comfortable w/a CPAP mask on at a pressure below 5 or even 6 cms) to a set pressure of say 10 cms over a period of say 45 minutes.

If you've had a titration study, they assume they've come close to or found your needed pressure setting. Since you've been on CPAP less than 30 days they have no idea how much trouble you are having. They may well suggest an autoPAP when you go in to see them. I can't read a crystal ball unfortunately. It really wouldn't make sense to order a loaner autoPAP immediately after a titration study, it would be assumed that there was no need for one. YOU have to make it known to THEM that this just isn't working for you and you need HELP to make it work. Good luck. It can be discouraging at times but .... in the end its almost always worth it!!!!


_________________
Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Resmed VPAP Auto. Humidaire 3i, Simplicity & Micro masks, ResScan 3.4, S8 ResLink, Embla oximeter.

Thanks for the explanation"GUEST" on the autoPAP.

CrohnieToo.. I thought the ramping feature might have been the problem so I turned it off along with the EPR and still got  one of the worse gasping  spells. That's why I say it makes it worse with the machine on. I have to give the office a call and try to see if they can figure something out. AutoPAP would be my choice but as they told me in no uncertain terms "THEY"ARE THE DOCTOR'S. I'll give them one more shot at it then they won't be the doctors. I'm "Dead Man Walking"at this point.

CrohnieToo wrote:

The doc told you horsepuckies. Ambien was developed specifically for sleep, as was Lunesta and Rozarem. Valium is a benzodiazapine and was developed for other disorders than sleep but has sedating properties. Those sedatiing properties CAN affect your sleep evaluation and titration results. Ambien, Lunesta and Rozarem are much less likely to affect your studies.

My sleep doc is not big on Ambien as it can effect your breathing.  He put me on Rozarem.  Agreed that Valium should not be used as a sleeping pill.

Interesting, SleepingNow, since Ambien seems to be the most commonly approved sleep med by sleep labs. Thank you for sharing your doctor's recommendations. Rozarem doesn't seem to be as well known as Ambien and Lunesta tho I've seen a couple of commercials for it on TV. I wonder if it the newest in this class of meds? I'll have to look it up 'cause you've got my curiosity up now.


_________________
Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Resmed VPAP Auto. Humidaire 3i, Simplicity & Micro masks, ResScan 3.4, S8 ResLink, Embla oximeter.

joey777 wrote:

Thanks people for the advice. I did't know you could post your sleep study. I will have to do that. I am waiting for the full report. I do know that I have an 20.3 AHI.

AHI means that there is an average of 20 respiratory events per hour. The events can be apneas (stopped breathing) or hypopneas (shallow breathing). The AHI of 20 indicates that you have a Moderately severe condition, and that the events happen not only during sleep onset, but also during the time that you are fully asleep. The full sleep study report should be able to give you more information.

joey777 wrote:

I have a very high leg movements of 51.2 an hour

Sometimes these resolve or improve with effective treatment of the sleep-disordered breathing.
If not, there are medications specifically approved for this condition.

joey777 wrote:

and snore pretty bad.

Snoring can cause brain arousals of which the sleeper is unaware. Snoring itself can be very disruptive to sleep. Proper treatment with CPAP should resolve snoring.

joey777 wrote:

My pressure is set to 8.

The optimal pressure setting is unique to each person. The range of standard pressures is 4 to 20cm, although there are special PAPs that can deliver higher pressure than 20cm. People often report that they feel like they are suffocating on lowest pressures of 4-6cm. A setting of 8cm is relatively low.

There are many reports of people who experience apneas at sleep apnea, and this sounds like what you are describing. There does not seem to be a lot of medical knowledge about this particular characteristic. If you find a good doc who is willing to work with you, then it's possible that you could discuss possible experiments with adjustments to the pressure. It is possible that either a higher inhale or an inhale/exhale combination might work better for you.

When MW said the following: "Sleep apnea is a disease caused by our life style, fast foods, coca colas, preserved foods and being such workaholics and TV addicts that we neglect our health and bodies until it is too late and expect doctors to fix the health issues with tablets." This culture has to change"  I had to respond.  My sleep apnea is not caused by these things.  I totally take care of myself by eating really good foods; I eat salads, vegetables, fruit fish such as salmon; (alot) brown rice; no white or white flour and hardly any sugar and do not smoke & do not drink; and am not a workaholic; I do not drink coca colas; I drink water all day; I Love water! I have low blood pressure, (today 110/70), low cholesteral, low sugar.  My apnea is caused my my receeding jaw then my tongue goes back into my throat and suffocates me.  So please do not post inaccurate information.  Thank you.