Has anyone heard of anyone undergoing hypnotherapy to correct OSA?  Results?

Anonymous wrote:

Has anyone heard of anyone undergoing hypnotherapy to correct OSA?  Results?

Hi,

I have heard of one or two people trying it, but it doesn't work.
OSA is a result of a physical blockage, or a weakness in the tissue of the airway. Hypnosis won't work with that.

Daniel


_________________
The untreated Sleep Apnoea sufferer died quietly in his sleep.......
Unlike his three passengers who died screaming !!!!!!

(Anon)

Thanks for your reply.

By the way, if I can lay down on my back while conscious and breath ok (which we all can), then the only stumbling block is gaining *conscious* control of the muscles in the palate while *unconsciously* sleeping.  Not too far fetched in theory, IMO.  Would just take something to impress on your subconscious that it is absolutely vital that you keep those muscles rigid..... something like hypnosis.

Daniel,
Forgot to ask..... what were their situations and can you describe the outcomes?

Anonymous wrote:

Daniel,
Forgot to ask..... what were their situations and can you describe the outcomes?

It's a year or two ago. One I can remember as I spoke to him on the phone. Aged mid 30's, said he was fit, not overweight with moderate apnoea. Would not even consider CPAP.

I subsequently met him at a support meeting about 9/10 months later. He was coming to terms with CPAP then. I don't know the exact details but he said hypnosis didn't work and was a total waste of money.

Daniel


_________________
The untreated Sleep Apnoea sufferer died quietly in his sleep.......
Unlike his three passengers who died screaming !!!!!!

(Anon)

Hypnosis is an interesting idea, but I personally don't think it could work for the following reason.  Hypnosis is used theraputically in areas of our lives which are amenable to psychological control such as weight loss, smoking cessation and perfromance anxiety.  I am not aware of its use in controlling autonomic nervous systems such as the mechanism which guides our body through the complex plysiology of sleeping.  I'm sure there are good reasons our muscle tone becomes lax when we sleep and I think controlling that might be as difficult as controlling, say breathing.

Vicki


_________________
That which does not kill you makes you stronger-Friedrich Nietzsche
Friedrich must of had apnea.

Author    Message
wholenewlight
Guest



    

 hypnosis for sleep apnea--it worked at least once!
Hi.  I wanted to report what happened with someone who suffered from severe obstructive sleep apnea (40-50 episodes per hour, as diagnosed by a sleep disorders clinic).  First, let me say I'm a certified clinical hypnotherapist with no particular training or background in treating sleep disorders per se.  The protocols I learned and practice are designed to engage the subconscious and to let the emotions and body speak for themselves, if you will.  The client I worked with was using one of the nighttime appliances the sleep disorders center recommended, to no avail.  The next step, they told him, was surgery to reposition his jaw.

In the hypnotherapy session, once he was in a relaxed state of mind, I asked the client (I'll call him "Joe," not his real name) to go into his sleep problem and ask it where it come from, what it was all about.  Almost immediately, Joe became tearful to the point of sobbing and expressed great remorse and guilt for abandoning his father to a nursing home after he'd had a stroke.  Joe had been bitter and angry toward his father since his dad abandoned the family when Joe was 13.  After Dad left, Joe wound up essentially raising his sister, as his mother was emotionally ill.  Despite this, Joe felt terrible about leaving his father to waste away, and in the hypnotherapy session, he was able to forgive his father, and he made a promise to himself to visit his dad in the nursing home.  Joe seemed to feel an enormous sense of relief, and he said he felt as if a great burden had been lifted.  He "knew" he'd be able to sleep soundly that night.

I saw him three days later, and he said he'd had no trouble sleeping since the session, and that a friend he was staying with observed that Joe was no longer snoring!  Six weeks after that, I spoke to Joe again, and he said he was still sleeping well, waking up refreshed.

I should add that it's not at all unusual for physical symptoms to improve if not vanish altogether as the result of hypnotherapy.  And I'm aware that despite the groundswell of support for complementary medicine approaches to problems (not to mention a growing body of evidence--no pun intended), there seems still to be considerable resistance among a great many physicians.  As an example, before Joe ever entered the picture, I had mentioned to one of the principals of the same sleep disorders clinic where Joe had his sleep study that I would be happy to offer my services gratis to any of his patients who might want to try a somatic healing approach.  He responded by essentially rebuffing me without expressing the slightest interest in the kind of work I do, saying no, this is not insomnia we're talking about, this is a purely medical condition that can't or won't respond to something like hypnosis.  End of discussion.

I'm in the strange position of almost feeling apologetic for the success of Joe's session, as if the unwelcome empirical data would be threatening or upsetting to the clinicians who "already know" that hypnosis and other "alternative" approaches are ineffectual.  And then there's the respiratory therapist I know who tells me that she's seen that often the surgery to correct obstructive sleep apnea itself doesn't work.

I'm not saying that all sleep apnea will respond to hypnotherapy; I have no way of knowing that.  I am saying that there seems to be an emotional/psychological component to most physical issues, and one ignores that component at one's peril.  And I'm not the only one saying this by any means.

For instance, Andrew Weil, M.D., says "In general, I believe that no condition is out of bounds for trying hypnotherapy on."

Thanks for letting me share my client's experience.

Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:39 am

Saying hypnosis doesn't work for this or that is analagous to taking your car to a crummy mechanic who doesn't know to fix it, and concluding from his failure that mechanics don't know how to fix your car.

Hi Wholenewlight and Welcome!

You have one example of someone whose emotional trauma you corrected and they are sleeping better.  I do not doubt that in a minute.  But the true test of success in OSA "cures" is a follow-up sleep study after the "cure".  Please have your client repeat the sleep study and post his normal results and I absolutely guarantee that you will have thousands of people at your door, including me!!  If your client's OSA is not really fixed, then his life is at risk.  OSA carries with it increased risk of heart attack and stroke among many other severe effects.  It is a very complex disorder with devastating consequences if not adequately treated.

Hypnotherapy has worked for me in the past and I would happily be your first test subject if you wanted to run clinicial trials and publish your results!  Or just treat me and pay for my follow-up sleep study!  I'd help you write a research grant!  We go to the same place but from different sides.  NIH now has a center for alternative med. but I know it is hard to get alternative med accepted.  However, the way to get it accepted as an option is to have hard core data available for peer review.  OSA, is just to dangerous a condition to recommend an alternative approach as a first line of therapy.

However, you are correct surgery has a low success rate and we highly recommend thoroughly researching outcomes and options before someone goes there.  It also sounds like your client did not have a good sleep lab to work with.

Vicki


_________________
That which does not kill you makes you stronger-Friedrich Nietzsche
Friedrich must of had apnea.

wholenewlight wrote:

Author    Message
wholenewlight
Guest



    

 hypnosis for sleep apnea--it worked at least once!
Hi.  I wanted to report what happened with someone who suffered from severe obstructive sleep apnea (40-50 episodes per hour, as diagnosed by a sleep disorders clinic).  First, let me say I'm a certified clinical hypnotherapist with no particular training or background in treating sleep disorders per se.  The protocols I learned and practice are designed to engage the subconscious and to let the emotions and body speak for themselves, if you will.  The client I worked with was using one of the nighttime appliances the sleep disorders center recommended, to no avail.  The next step, they told him, was surgery to reposition his jaw.

In the hypnotherapy session, once he was in a relaxed state of mind, I asked the client (I'll call him "Joe," not his real name) to go into his sleep problem and ask it where it come from, what it was all about.  Almost immediately, Joe became tearful to the point of sobbing and expressed great remorse and guilt for abandoning his father to a nursing home after he'd had a stroke.  Joe had been bitter and angry toward his father since his dad abandoned the family when Joe was 13.  After Dad left, Joe wound up essentially raising his sister, as his mother was emotionally ill.  Despite this, Joe felt terrible about leaving his father to waste away, and in the hypnotherapy session, he was able to forgive his father, and he made a promise to himself to visit his dad in the nursing home.  Joe seemed to feel an enormous sense of relief, and he said he felt as if a great burden had been lifted.  He "knew" he'd be able to sleep soundly that night.

I saw him three days later, and he said he'd had no trouble sleeping since the session, and that a friend he was staying with observed that Joe was no longer snoring!  Six weeks after that, I spoke to Joe again, and he said he was still sleeping well, waking up refreshed.

I should add that it's not at all unusual for physical symptoms to improve if not vanish altogether as the result of hypnotherapy.  And I'm aware that despite the groundswell of support for complementary medicine approaches to problems (not to mention a growing body of evidence--no pun intended), there seems still to be considerable resistance among a great many physicians.  As an example, before Joe ever entered the picture, I had mentioned to one of the principals of the same sleep disorders clinic where Joe had his sleep study that I would be happy to offer my services gratis to any of his patients who might want to try a somatic healing approach.  He responded by essentially rebuffing me without expressing the slightest interest in the kind of work I do, saying no, this is not insomnia we're talking about, this is a purely medical condition that can't or won't respond to something like hypnosis.  End of discussion.

I'm in the strange position of almost feeling apologetic for the success of Joe's session, as if the unwelcome empirical data would be threatening or upsetting to the clinicians who "already know" that hypnosis and other "alternative" approaches are ineffectual.  And then there's the respiratory therapist I know who tells me that she's seen that often the surgery to correct obstructive sleep apnea itself doesn't work.

I'm not saying that all sleep apnea will respond to hypnotherapy; I have no way of knowing that.  I am saying that there seems to be an emotional/psychological component to most physical issues, and one ignores that component at one's peril.  And I'm not the only one saying this by any means.

For instance, Andrew Weil, M.D., says "In general, I believe that no condition is out of bounds for trying hypnotherapy on."

Thanks for letting me share my client's experience.

Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:39 am

You are at it again.
Please desist.

Daniel


_________________
The untreated Sleep Apnoea sufferer died quietly in his sleep.......
Unlike his three passengers who died screaming !!!!!!

(Anon)

wholenewlight wrote:

Saying hypnosis doesn't work for this or that is analagous to taking your car to a crummy mechanic who doesn't know to fix it, and concluding from his failure that mechanics don't know how to fix your car.

Why not take your car to the hypnotist, after all, it probably just feels "guilty" about not running well, and once that is resolved, will purr like a kitten.

Daniel wrote:

You are at it again.
Please desist.

Daniel

Daniel~
I don't see why offering alternatives is so bad in your view.
Chances are, in this case, it wasn't true OSA and WAS a psychological
issue... who's to say that some of the people on this forum are not
suffering in similar situations?

If a person has been diagnosed with a sleep study and KNOWS that
their apnea is OSA, then they shouldn't even be thinking about this
hypnosis as an alternative, but if they are non-OSA or non-apnea-ic
(yeah, I know it probably isn't a real word, but you get my meaning)
then this is a possible way to relieve their issues.

The post needs to have a disclaimer, I agree, but for you to request
"cease and desist" for someone to not post info that could be helpful
to others is irresponsible as well.

Those are my .02

Anonymous wrote:

Daniel~
I don't see why offering alternatives is so bad in your view.
Chances are, in this case, it wasn't true OSA and WAS a psychological
issue... who's to say that some of the people on this forum are not
suffering in similar situations?

If a person has been diagnosed with a sleep study and KNOWS that
their apnea is OSA, then they shouldn't even be thinking about this
hypnosis as an alternative, but if they are non-OSA or non-apnea-ic
(yeah, I know it probably isn't a real word, but you get my meaning)
then this is a possible way to relieve their issues.

The post needs to have a disclaimer, I agree, but for you to request
"cease and desist" for someone to not post info that could be helpful
to others is irresponsible as well.

Those are my .02

That was me... on a new PC and forgot that I wasn't logged in...  
Sorry...


_________________
=^) Valerie

Daniel,

From your post on the other thread, I agree it is bad form if the hypotherapist is using the forum to illicit false hope, potentially put people's life at risk and try to drum up business.  But I am sure that if they are truly interested in hypnotherapy as an alternative, they would conduct studies in a manner safe to patients and not involving compensation to the hypnotherapist in line with the way clinical trials by law are conducted.  In fact, the patient would be compensated for a second sleep study to prove efficacy.

The first law of medicine "Do no harm" Vicki


_________________
That which does not kill you makes you stronger-Friedrich Nietzsche
Friedrich must of had apnea.

WebDiva wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Daniel~
I don't see why offering alternatives is so bad in your view.
Chances are, in this case, it wasn't true OSA and WAS a psychological
issue... who's to say that some of the people on this forum are not
suffering in similar situations?

If a person has been diagnosed with a sleep study and KNOWS that
their apnea is OSA, then they shouldn't even be thinking about this
hypnosis as an alternative, but if they are non-OSA or non-apnea-ic
(yeah, I know it probably isn't a real word, but you get my meaning)
then this is a possible way to relieve their issues.

The post needs to have a disclaimer, I agree, but for you to request
"cease and desist" for someone to not post info that could be helpful
to others is irresponsible as well.

Those are my .02

That was me... on a new PC and forgot that I wasn't logged in...  
Sorry...

No problem.

Unfortunately, I lost it when I saw the post from a hypnotherapist. Over the years I have seen forums and newsgroups (usually good ones) destroyed with snake oil salesmen pushing all types of miracle cures. A hypnotherapist today, accupuncturist tomorrow, aromatherapist et al.

I have never come accross any 'peer reviewed' studies showing anything either positive or negative to do with OSA, and until such time as I do I believe it is morally wrong of these people to attempt to use this or any support forum to peddle their wares.

Daniel


_________________
The untreated Sleep Apnoea sufferer died quietly in his sleep.......
Unlike his three passengers who died screaming !!!!!!

(Anon)